Christian Wiman is a poet and essayist who teaches religion and literature at Yale Divinity School. The author of My Bright Abyss and other books, he is also a stirring preacher.

Chris and Matt are old friends. This episode picks up in the midst of a decade-long running conversation about the place of poetry in preaching, good poems to use in the pulpit, whether scripture has unique revelatory power, naming the despair of churchgoers, and the centrality of Christ.

Use the player below to listen.